I'm civilised enough to have a discussion...but you're too arrogant...
Hairy - Beginner/IT Developer
March 5, 2006 at 17:12:52
You tell me to get of my silly bully pulpit because I disagree with your thoughts. I thought the whole idea of this forum was for everyone to share their ideas on the subject, but you seem to be insistant, that unless I agree with you - I'm silly, a bully and and make ridiculous statements.
I have simply shared my thoughts on what I personally think. The way I see it - the world has lived for thousands of years with laws that protect people from others, however the idea of protecting someone from themselves is a recent development.
I have read other posts, and you are right - I apologise about making the statement that CDNN's argument about a money making machine. That comment was made by other posters, and not CDNN. Thank you for pulling me up on that one.
However, unfortuantly - you are unable to do the same. You accuse me of screaming my opinion, when I'm simply giving you my thoughts on the subject. I don't go to the level to say I am right - but say it's my opinion.
I don't call you a fanatic - say that you're screaming, or that your ideas are ridiculous. I'm civilised enough to have a discussion to share thoughts and I even go to the extent of trying to think from your viewpoint and understanding where you're comming from - but your too arrogant to even try to consider that anyone elses opinions that differ from yours - but instead, accuse me of having the mindset stupied enough that we shouldn't license vehicle drivers, and put words into my mouth.
I use arguments such as mountain climbing - which in realism is very close to scuba diving. A budy system where injury will normally occur to only you and/or your buddy.
I also make mention of the law, in which (AFAIK) it's not illegal to scuba dive without a license (although you'll find it hard to hire equipment or get refills, etc) - but you like to ignore things that I say that don't support your viewpoint.
You can't argue my point against something so similar, so you pull out motor cars to get a point across - something so far from what we're talking about, it's hard to take you seriously. (And then you call me ridiculous!)
Maybe my points are valid. You can't meet me on a level playing field without accusations, personal attacks and putting words in my cars (such as using automobiles where I used Mountain Climbing).
My thoughts again:
I don't have a problem with PADI's basic scuba course.
I believe it should be up to everyone to decide for themselves their OWN safety level. PADI's basic course is the closest thing to my personal viewpoint that I've seen todate, so I endorse it.
Can I understand the opposition - YES. Those who have a mindset of trying to control people, to protect them from themselves (which isn't necessarily a bad idea, but the question is where do we stop protecting people, and let them have freedom of choice, and self responsibility for themselves).
Freedom of choice - you call ridiculous, because someone may choose something that might hurt themselves. Personally, I see that as putting your nose in someone elses business.
However you don't believe consumers should have a choice. To quote you:
"To cut to the chase, consumer choice is an irrelevent backdrop. The issue front and center is whether or not a specific product is actually defective."
That's a great way of doing business and getting people interested. By considering the consumers choise as being irrelavent! Consumers choise IS what I see PADI's scuba course all about. It gives them a taste of whether they want to continue scuba diving, or if it's not for them to quit, without forking lots of money to find out in the first place. They can start with the basic course, along with the choise to choose their own safety margin.
Of course, if you believe that people shouldn't have the freedom to choose their own safety level - then the product is defective. However, if you believe that people should live in a free world, where they can make a choise, then the product is not defective.
PADI's basic course is one step closer to giving someone that choice. It doesn't stop there - they can continue on other courses if they choose to. But people choosing for themselves - I'm sorry, that's a ridiculous statement. Yes - PADI Should ban the course. Please!
I realise that my contradictary opinion is not welcome here, and that any further posts I make here are going to be gunned down by you, making accusations of me as being a raving lunatic - simply because I disagree with you. And I don't want this to move focus away from PADI's course (which the topic is about), which is what will probably happen here if I continue to post with you replying.
As I am unwelcome here, I shall make this my last post. You may go ahead, and acuse me of whatever you want and I won't reply again - you have free reign to bash me and name call me all you want. You can say good ridance, as I would now expect of you, reading your nature from your previous posts - but maybe one day, you may realise that just because people disagree with you, it's no reason to start attacking them - but instead, maybe have a civilised debate with them, pointing out where you believe they are wrong - without going to personal attacks, or putting words in peoples mouths.
Maybe I am wrong - maybe I'm right. Who's to say? That's what forums and discussions are about. One things for sure. You'll have much more of a chance proving my point wrong, and even 'converting me' with decent arguments that you'll let me rebut, instead of personal attacks.